[2stroke] Ryger engine

LucF a écrit:

Fredrikgu a écrit:

You should continue to explain Luc, there is a lot of people that would like to have a better understanding. That you are late in the project is one thing, but that does not automatically mean the engine is not working as you describe. I have not yet got a good objective explanation why it should not work.

I thought that I already had explain a lot, but if nobody seems to understand what I wrote, because no understanding reply at all on that, so useless to explain the next chapter. "the power of a Ryger" and may be more?

Start thinking after the first race is for all those unbelievers a lot easier than thinking out of the box.
But for those people who first shouted to me with a big mouth the way they did, I'm not prepared to say anything anymore, also not after the first race. They better stays with there soon old fashion twostroke engines.

And all steps after that we do not give any information before, because that's what we have learned from those guys.

But you did not quite think fully out of the box either? You had to re-engineer the power results, as you did not design the engine for the high power to begin with?

With that said, I have once again read your Ryger presentation, and I find it very interesting and understandable. But, not saying what you write is wrong, I have not yet fully understood this:

"Also, the blowdown is much less important due to the insensitivity to the exhaustpipe, as long as the gas is pushed out in time. Due to the reduced stroke volume, no gas is lost in the exhaust which must be pushed back through the exhaust pulse later."

Do you mean that the high pressure mix going into the cylinder is less in volume, but higher in mass, and that it will not have time to exit through the exhaust?

Am I right in thinking that the diffusor of the exhaust is still to good use for the Ryger engine?

I do hope that you can reconsider and give us some more information.

Dan42 a écrit:

Luc please, continue to explain the next chapter " the power of a Ryger" and don't listen the unbelievers and people not able to understand.
Dan

Thanks Dan for your confidence, but most people get angry on forums. May be you better can tell lies than the truth.
So why should I do my best to explain everything of what we have expierenced while most peolple thinks, I'm a liar.
So no change I ever come back, because after the first race, I have no time for those people.

Fredrikgu a écrit:

But you did not quite think fully out of the box either? You had to re-engineer the power results, as you did not design the engine for the high power to begin with?    

"Out of the box" means to create something what never has done before which can be use as example, so has nothing to do what you wrote!

Citation :

"Also, the blowdown is much less important due to the insensitivity to the exhaustpipe, as long as the gas is pushed out in time. Due to the reduced stroke volume, no gas is lost in the exhaust which must be pushed back through the exhaust pulse later."

Do you mean that the high pressure mix going into the cylinder is less in volume, but higher in mass, and that it will not have time to exit through the exhaust?

What I described is what I mean and your question is another part of that which has to do with the power.

Citation :

Am I right in thinking that the diffusor of the exhaust is still to good use for the Ryger engine?

I do hope that you can reconsider and give us some more information.

We never did experimentals with the exhaustpipe, because it is homologated, ofcourse it should be done, but was not a priority for us.
New information will sure come, but not here anymore.

The whole situation has been set up by one man, Jan Thiel and everybody walks blindy after him.
He will blame his name for the future which will be clear after the first race we do. .

You should be really crazy when setting up a whole factory and paying a lot of money for patent,
as the claims we did were untruth, and also be very stupid for anyone who believe this !!!

.

Salut
"New information will sure come, but not here anymore."
et c'est tant mieux,le système bielle/manivelle a des limites physiques que Ryger balaye d'un revers de main.
à 28000 T/mn
l'accélération est de 30500 g
la vitesse maximum du piston et de 83,5 m/s
la vitesse moyenne linéaire du piston est de 50,8 m/s

On peut rappeler les limites approximatives actuelles de l'état de l'art ou du métier
aux environs de 10000/12000 g
vitesse moyenne autour de 30/32 m/s
et que dire que du délai physique et chimique de l'allumage commandé et de la vitesse de propagation du front de flamme vers 35/40 m/s.
En gros le piston n'est pas poussé par la combustion qui est trop lente et le moteur supporte des forces d'inertie 3 fois plus forte que les limites atteintes par les moteurs de compétition les plus poussés.

Il y a un moment ,faut redescendre sur terre et tant mieux si le Ryger marche(ra) mieux que ses concurrents ,le 2 temps I don't care mais sortir 2 ou 3 graphiques et une photo avec 28000 comme preuve que toutes les lois physiques sont outrepassées par la géniale conception de cette variante du moteur 2 temps.
je suis peut être trop con pour comprendre mais les lois physiques s'appliquent à tous les moteurs sur terre et depuis le début du moteur à combustion interne.

P.S :google translate pour les englishspoken.

kenavo les magiciens.

traduction
Hello
"New information will sure come, but not here anymore."
And that's all the better, the rod / crank system has physical limits that Ryger sweeps away with a backhand.
At 28000 rpm
The acceleration is 30500 g
The maximum piston speed and 83.5 m / s
The linear average speed of the piston is 50.8 m / s

It may be recalled the current approximate limits of the state of the art or "enginering"
Around 10000/12000 g
Average speed around 30/32 m / s
And that of the physical and chemical delay of the controlled ignition and the propagation velocity of the flame front towards 35/40 m / s.
In general, the piston is not pushed by the combustion which is too slow and the motor supports forces of inertia 3 times stronger than the limits reached by the most advanced competition engines.

A moment ago, we must go down to earth and so much better if the Ryger (will) work  better than its competitors, the 2 stroke I do not care but get 2 or 3 graphics and a photo with 28000 as proof that all laws Physics are overshadowed by the brilliant design of this variant of the 2-stroke engine.
I may be too silly to understand but the physical laws apply to all engines on Earth and since the beginning of the internal combustion engine.



Kenavo (goodbye) the magicians.

Et sai répartit pour les mêmes pleurnicheries que sur les autres forums.

Vous êtes pas gentils, alors je joue plus avec vous

Sa me rappelle un concepteur de châssis.

Tous des cons, révolution.
Résultat rien
Création société pour prendre l'argent

Très simple

Combien coûte un moteur ?

Procédure pour le commander ?

J'ai accès à un banc fuchs, aucun soucis pour le faire pédaler dessus.

Quelqu'un ici à déjà tenté d'en acheter un. Bizarrement jamais eut

Il ne faudrait surtout pas qu'un acheteur potentiel du concept puisse voir des questions dérangeantes.
Un industriel n'est pas fou et voudra voir de vrais résultats.

Sa sent bien le fait d'être pris à la gorge financièrement. investissement sur un seul projet qui ne fonctionne pas faut vite faire de la com et vendre vite.

Demain j'invente un 2 temps révolutionnaire, je le fais rouler partout.

The Ryger patent is aplied by "Ryger Engine United B.V."

weirdly enough, throw that in google and the outcome is ..... nothing besides the patent

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

Come on guys, aren't you convinced now that we got a shabby picture of a 20€ rev counter?

Mr Gerrits really should have paid someone else to manage PR.

And no Luc, I can be critical by myself - that should be in every technicians nature.

Luc,

Thank you for your reply.

Yes, I agree with you that you have thought outside of the box. But, I meant that it was not easy for you, either, to predict before testing that your engine was going to give the amount of power.

I think Ryger will have good chances to be successful, in the end. The "old" technology has to think what to do next. I think there are a lot of good engineers/tuners thinking about a "B-plan" to be able to compete, as you enter the scene.

Please, be hard on the quality with your subsuppliers and when setting up production. Take advise by an experienced TS16949 advisor. Make SURE nothing can go wrong in the production!

Fredrikgu a écrit:

Luc,

Thank you for your reply.

Yes, I agree with you that you have thought outside of the box. But, I meant that it was not easy for you, either, to predict before testing that your engine was going to give the amount of power.

I think Ryger will have good chances to be successful, in the end. The "old" technology has to think what to do next. I think there are a lot of good engineers/tuners thinking about a "B-plan" to be able to compete, as you enter the scene.

Please, be hard on the quality with your subsuppliers and when setting up production. Take advise by an experienced TS16949 advisor. Make SURE nothing can go wrong in the production!

Thanks Fredrik,
If you look at the Ryger superficially, you soon think it can not be anything but if you look a little further than your nose, than you'll find big differences in favor of the Ryger.
The first one I did initially also, but with the results I had no choise and went deeper.
It's all in the last chapter including the physical properties who are responsible for that.

R one a écrit:

It may be recalled the current approximate limits of the state of the art or "enginering"
Around 10000/12000 g
Average speed around 30/32 m / s
And that of the physical and chemical delay of the controlled ignition and the propagation velocity of the flame front towards 35/40 m / s.
In general, the piston is not pushed by the combustion which is too slow and the motor supports forces of inertia 3 times stronger than the limits reached by the most advanced competition engines.

A moment ago, we must go down to earth and so much better if the Ryger (will) work  better than its competitors, the 2 stroke I do not care but get 2 or 3 graphics and a photo with 28000 as proof that all laws Physics are overshadowed by the brilliant design of this variant of the 2-stroke engine.
I may be too silly to understand but the physical laws apply to all engines on Earth and since the beginning of the internal combustion engine.

There are no physical laws as you described, that is what most people made of it.
And combution and burningspeed over the rpm range in a Ryger is much different from the current twostroke. [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

Luc,

Merci pour votre réponse.

Oui, je suis d'accord avec vous que vous avez pensé en dehors de la boîte. Mais, je voulais dire qu'il n'était pas facile pour vous, non plus, de prévoir avant de tester que votre moteur allait donner le pouvoir.

Je pense que Ryger aura de bonnes chances de réussir, à la fin. La «vieille» technologie doit penser à faire ensuite. Je pense qu'il y a beaucoup de bons ingénieurs / tuners qui pensent à un «B-plan» pour pouvoir concourir alors que vous entrez dans la scène.

S'il vous plaît, soyez difficile pour la qualité avec vos sous-fournisseurs et lors de la mise en place de la production. Prenez conseil par un conseiller TS16949 expérimenté. Assurez-vous que rien ne peut se produire dans la production!

Merci Fredrik,
Si vous regardez le Ryger superficiellement, vous pensez bientôt que ce ne peut être autre chose que si vous regardez un peu plus loin que votre nez, que vous trouverez de grandes différences en faveur du Ryger.
Le premier que j'ai fait d'abord aussi, mais avec les résultats, je n'ai eu aucun choix et j'ai approfondi.
C'est tout dans le dernier chapitre, y compris les propriétés physiques qui en sont responsables.
Pour éviter de faire chacun google trad.

Les valeurs que j'ai donné sont égales voir supérieures aux meilleurs moteurs F1 atmosphériques qui tournaient à plus de 19000 T/mn et sortait plus de 310 chevaux/litre et pas d'une tronconneuse mc culloch.
Je vous laisse entre spécialistes 2 temps ,mon opinion est faite depuis longtemps et n'as aucune importance.je retournes jouer avec mes soupapes et autres turbo.

The values I have given are equal to or better than the best atmospheric F1 engines that rotated more than 19000 rpm and came out more than 310 horsepower / liter and not a chain saw Mc culloch.
I leave you between 2 strokes engines specialist, my opinion is made a long time and does not matter. I return to play with my valves and other turbo.

kenavo

How many ?

Methods of ordering ?

I have a dynamometer

Jan Thiel a écrit:

Finally a Ryger engine has run on the SAME track, on the same day, with a TM
The TM was 2.5 seconds a lap faster.....
Observed by a very serious and capable person
Also the times between gearchanges were notably longer.
Power was estimated by the lap times as being around 32-33HP.....
More or less as expected, and in line with the simulation Vannik did with 2strokeEngMod.

Awaiting new comments.....

A 'so called' expert,
who just doesn't like big-mouthed people...

Citation :

Sam 2 Juil 2016 - 23:02
It seems that I have been mistaken.
The engine I said was tested was NOT a Ryger, but a bad copy!
As I live in Thailand, far away from where things happen I sometimes get wrong information.
So I certainly should not have written what I wrote.
May I please excuse myself!
Jan Thiel

Citation :

Mer 6 Juil 2016 - 16:39
Please excuse me for my mistaken comment.....
I will not comment on the Ryger anymore, never!
Jan Thiel

No comment !

LucF a écrit:

Jan Thiel a écrit:

Finally a Ryger engine has run on the SAME track, on the same day, with a TM
The TM was 2.5 seconds a lap faster.....
Observed by a very serious and capable person
Also the times between gearchanges were notably longer.
Power was estimated by the lap times as being around 32-33HP.....
More or less as expected, and in line with the simulation Vannik did with 2strokeEngMod.
Awaiting new comments....
A 'so called' expert,
who just doesn't like big-mouthed people...

Citation :

Sam 2 Juil 2016 - 23:02
It seems that I have been mistaken.
The engine I said was tested was NOT a Ryger, but a bad copy!
As I live in Thailand, far away from where things happen I sometimes get wrong information.
So I certainly should not have written what I wrote.
May I please excuse myself!
Jan Thiel

Citation :

Mer 6 Juil 2016 - 16:39
Please excuse me for my mistaken comment.....
I will not comment on the Ryger anymore, never!
Jan Thiel

No comment !

I did not want to take part in this discussion, but now I feel that I must react in defense of my old friend Jan Thiel.
The first quote in the above post originated here:
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
As you can see, it is dated 6 September 2017

Omitting this first date and placing the quotes from 2 July 2016 and 6 July 2016 below that first quote, suggesting that Jan Thiel was apologizing for a text that he wrote more than a year after his apologies, is simply misleading. Why else would anyone put the apologies below the recent text, suggesting a chronological order, and disguise the fact that those apologies are not in any way related to that text?

Frits Overmars a écrit:

I did not want to take part in this discussion, but now I feel that I must react in defense of my old friend Jan Thiel.
The first quote in the above post originated here:
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
As you can see, it is dated 6 September 2017
Omitting this first date and placing the quotes from 2 July 2016 and 6 July 2016 below that first quote, suggesting that Jan Thiel was apologizing for a text that he wrote more than a year after his apologies, is simply misleading. Why else would anyone put the apologies below the recent text, suggesting a chronological order, and disguise the fact that those apologies are not in any way related to that text?

Hello Frits, thanks for staying out of the Ryger discussion and I understand your help to Jan in this case too.
But what I want to say is how bad Jan is informed, in the past and also in the current case, and in which he stated every thing as 100% the truth of a witness he don't want to give the name.
The first witness of 2016 was Bob van der Zijden, so why no name of the current witness?

Everyone can read the clearly date and reason of the quotes, so why misleading??
And what to say, that everyone here is misleaded by those terrible messages of Jan here and in the past, how about that??

jamathi a écrit:

I will not give you his name, but he was the most capable person present.
So you will know who I mean!
And please stop telling fairy tales....
LOOSING 2.5 seconds a lap on a 35seconds track is ridiculous, not just very bad....
No 70 HP, not even 66, but about 33-35!
Who will buy such a piece of shit?
Not even the scrapheap will be happy with them...

   
What kind chronometer does this "most capable very well know reliable witness" have to measure 35 sec?
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

So who is playing here with alternative facts ?

.

Luc, I don't know you but you're just a f...g w...r!
I took a look at the results and yes, Kevin Luinge won the A race!
Aleluïa, the Ryger won a race!
The problem is.... he was the only racer in KZ series and was racing against "Wankel Senioren"!
For all the followers of this shitty post, just look on the webb at what is "Wankel Senioren"...
Being honest, he won 2 races and finishes second in a third one and at the same time was alone for racing!
During qualifying sessions, it was almost the same: he was about to be second with his powerfull wonderfull Ryger!
It's enough for me, I was dreaming of a 2 stroke, you sell us a two joke!

Linj to fun: [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

fullgazlolo a écrit:

Luc, I don't know you but you're just a f...g w...r!
I took a look at the results and yes, Kevin Luinge won the A race!
Aleluïa, the Ryger won a race!
The problem is.... he was the only racer in KZ series and was racing against "Wankel Senioren"!
For all the followers of this shitty post, just look on the webb at what is "Wankel Senioren"...
Being honest, he won 2 races and finishes second in a third one and at the same time was alone for racing!
During qualifying sessions, it was almost the same: he was about to be second with his powerfull wonderfull Ryger!
It's enough for me, I was dreaming of a 2 stroke, you sell us a two joke!

Linj to fun: [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

I looked at what the Wankel senioren engine is, is it not an XR50 with 45-50 Hp, yes? If Kevin Luinge then drove a Ryger, it seems as if it won two races and came second in one, but with lap times the others could not match. Maybe he went off the track at some point?

No, not 45-50. 33kW so about 44.
Link: [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

But you can not say anything about that because the Ryger has a 6 ratios gearbox and the XR50 does'nt!
The battle would be much more instructive in a long track such as Carole in France instead of a small circuit.

Maybe the XR50 are mounted with gearbox, maybe not but it seems that not.

It's allways the same with Ryger mates: they compare potatoes and carrots to sell there dream.

They never show the tests on Dyno and they never show the same Dyno with a Ryger and a Tm (by exemple) and they never show a race between other types if KZ engines!

fullgazlolo a écrit:

Luc, I don't know you but you're just a f...g w...r!
I took a look at the results and yes, Kevin Luinge won the A race!
Aleluïa, the Ryger won a race!
The problem is.... he was the only racer in KZ series and was racing against "Wankel Senioren"!
For all the followers of this shitty post, just look on the webb at what is "Wankel Senioren"...
Being honest, he won 2 races and finishes second in a third one and at the same time was alone for racing!
During qualifying sessions, it was almost the same: he was about to be second with his powerfull wonderfull Ryger!
It's enough for me, I was dreaming of a 2 stroke, you sell us a two joke!

Linj to fun: [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

Thanks for you nice reply, but I never said that the Ryger did participate in a race.
The link to the race of 27th of august was only to show that a time of about 35 sec, of which Jan Thiel talked about, never could be a right measurement, so his statement could not be taken for real, neither his witness.

We are only training on sunday 3th of September at Pottendijk with some karts, one experienced and also some young drivers to learn.

the greatest legacy/contribution of the Ryger to history might be that it will be used by buisness shools etc... as an example of how not to deal with the modern (social) media, as it probly is one of the biggest PR-screw up's of the beginning of the 21st century. it doesn't even matter any more if it will deliver the promises or not, the damage is done.

Why doesn't someone put the Ryger engine on a proper dyno and put all this bullshi$ to bed. A simple dyno test against another known engine as a baseline will give us all clarity. Until this is done stop,,,just stop with the bullcrap. I deal in facts. And so far the fact is that there are no independent un-bias results published.

And thank you both Jan and Frits for all the facts and good advise over the years.

JanBros a écrit:

the greatest legacy/contribution of the Ryger to history might be that it will be used by buisness shools etc... as an example of how not to deal with the modern (social)  media, as it probly is one of the biggest PR-screw up's of the beginning of the 21st century. it doesn't even matter any more if it will deliver the promises or not, the damage is done.

Yes, good idea, than everyone can see how stupid you and many people react without knowing what's really happening and also how bad the understanding is of some so-called experts.

We knew for a long time that we better shouldn't have told anything to some people because they can't control their big mouth and wrote all they want on forums because they are jealous like hell.

So as always keep secret and watch out to tell anything to the wrong people.

.

LucF a écrit:

JanBros a écrit:

the greatest legacy/contribution of the Ryger to history might be that it will be used by buisness shools etc... as an example of how not to deal with the modern (social)  media, as it probly is one of the biggest PR-screw up's of the beginning of the 21st century. it doesn't even matter any more if it will deliver the promises or not, the damage is done.

Yes, good idea, than everyone can see how stupid you and many people react without knowing what's really happening and also how bad the understanding is of some so-called experts.

We knew for a long time that we better shouldn't have told anything to some people because they can't control their big mouth and wrote all they want on forums because they are jealous like hell.

So as allways keep secret, don't tell anything to the wrong people.

your PR is just as bad as that from those "wrong people" Luc. What did you expected when you posted your self-drawn power-graph's or a blury picture of some digital display indicating 28xxx ? I hope you didn't think people would believe them as I'm sure you are smarter than that.

Who is the wisest man ? the one that follows your own advice and says nothing (Mr Ryger himself) and let people talk and gossip all they want, or you ? it is you that keeps on talking and claiming things without saying anything (against your own advice...) ... Why don't you keep the secret's ?

JanBros a écrit:

...as I'm sure you are smarter than that.

not too sure anymore