| | [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) |  |
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+110ROSSIGRM Daniel A. Haufen wax GtG001 noppie7 Aleph Fügner Brian Callahan Howard Gifford roost t2 190mech ettoiffi lesolexeur Mic Hakkelaar Makr pierre95 GrahamB XpTpSMTT julien #41 rgdavid le vieux docteur romeuh80 SB07 Sabijator ghg02 tz_37 gromono72 Tomi titi rg250 EMOTracing David Matech Solutions zilo bic1983 JoeHännes Riley Will MANETON Jan Thiel bengui LDA Jordan75 tht44 mickie pfpraider cocco83 granjoie Shining jenne smit Michael Burgard nasone32 Camus14 tzpagnol cristogrr 2T4T Alfred Kleis Pickup zelos Institute of TwoStrokes MacPepR 2stroke zeze Emmanuel Laurentz Toop pit Frits Overmars jmdonnat lougassi mike Fonfon #155 pierre Charly phil yanapu bitza32 drt67 superkart eric² Jarno fpayart Team MLR Fabien fab evospeed Ricco#6 Pignool Yonel DAD#21 rs69 Seb4LO ridley 50cc dooky remix31 nsfman philou janpol84 aerophil i-greck Polo les gazs freddy Stephane Inspecteur Harry Thirob jerem-aye mecanik svtce l'occitan Martine Eric Marc 114 participants |
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tht44
Nombre de messages : 3
Age : 63
Localisation : Nantes
Date d'inscription : 10/01/2011
| Sujet: Suite ![wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 22 Icon_minitime](https://2img.net/i/fa/icon_minitime.gif) Mer 19 Jan 2011 - 21:20 | |
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Jordan75
Nombre de messages : 726
Age : 34
Localisation : Privas....
Date d'inscription : 27/12/2009
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Mer 19 Jan 2011 - 22:34 | |
| oulà je pense que tu aurais du tout mettre dans le même sujet ![wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 22 980796](/users/3313/47/10/07/smiles/980796.gif) cela dit c'est assez intéressant |
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LDA
Nombre de messages : 1290
Localisation : Clermont-Ferrand
Date d'inscription : 05/11/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Jeu 20 Jan 2011 - 0:04 | |
| Qui traduit tout cela?
Et encore: est-ce qu'il en a besoin ?
Les règles (de la traduction pro) veulent que ce soit un français qui connait l'italien plutôt qu'un italien qui connait le français. Je suis de ce dernier group. A défaut d'un representant du premier group je m'en charge (tant pis pour vous - en realité ça me dérange pas, mais il serait mieux -vraiment- que ce soit un français qui connait l'italien). |
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Marc
Admin
Nombre de messages : 28161
Age : 66
Localisation : Villiers sur Marne (94)
Date d'inscription : 27/05/2008
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Jeu 20 Jan 2011 - 0:37 | |
| Bon, j'avoue que la "mise en page" de notre ami m'a donné pas mal de travail ce soir... Qu'importe; les documents sont intéressants et les photos répondent déjà à quelques questions que nous nous étions posées. Mais cela en entraîne au moins une autre: il s'agit visiblement d'un manuel Aprilia consacré exclusivement au sujet traité. As-tu accès aux autres manuels? En tout cas, merci! ![wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 22 771973](/users/3313/47/10/07/smiles/771973.gif) _________________ Un p'tit clik vaut mieux qu'une grande claque; c'est Harry qui l'a dit! [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image][Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] |
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bengui
Nombre de messages : 21
Age : 35
Localisation : Le Mans
Date d'inscription : 01/12/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Jeu 20 Jan 2011 - 2:04 | |
| On trouve pas mal de chose ici dont la doc sur le couple conique. |
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Marc
Admin
Nombre de messages : 28161
Age : 66
Localisation : Villiers sur Marne (94)
Date d'inscription : 27/05/2008
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Jeu 20 Jan 2011 - 7:37 | |
| Merci; c'est bien le lien fourni par Frits Overmars il y a quelques temps. _________________ Un p'tit clik vaut mieux qu'une grande claque; c'est Harry qui l'a dit! [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image][Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] |
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nasone32
Nombre de messages : 26
Localisation : italy
Date d'inscription : 24/11/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Sam 22 Jan 2011 - 13:51 | |
| I would like to say an offtopic thing about the 24/7 valve. a friend of mine some days ago did 2 laps with an italsystem SV21 (frontal disc 100cc kart) with the disc blocked full open. didn't go fast because that thing was damn lean, but it worked. |
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Frits Overmars
Nombre de messages : 2638
Age : 76
Localisation : Raalte, Holland
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Dim 23 Jan 2011 - 13:49 | |
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Institute of TwoStrokes
Nombre de messages : 149
Localisation : Australie
Date d'inscription : 15/10/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Dim 30 Jan 2011 - 13:07 | |
| Frits I have read rumours of a top secret 'air pump' used to pressurise the airbox on the 250's. I think it is a bit of pit gossip but was refered to by a respected motorcycle journalist?
Frits j'ai lu les rumeurs d'un top secret «pompe à air» utilisée à pression sur le force sur les 250's. Je pense que c'est un peu de fosse gossip mais a été référencé par un journaliste respecté moto? |
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Frits Overmars
Nombre de messages : 2638
Age : 76
Localisation : Raalte, Holland
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Lun 31 Jan 2011 - 1:27 | |
| - Institute of TwoStrokes a écrit:
- Frits I have read rumours of a top secret 'air pump' used to pressurise the airbox on the 250's. I think it is a bit of pit gossip but was refered to by a respected motorcycle journalist?
Frits j'ai lu les rumeurs d'un top secret «pompe à air» utilisée à pression sur le force sur les 250's. Je pense que c'est un peu de fosse gossip mais a été référencé par un journaliste respecté moto? If such a pump exists at all, which I doubt, it would be a good idea to keep it secret because it would be completely illegal! The ram-air pressure in the air box of the Aprilia RSA250 was 30 mbar @ 260 km/h. In order to persuade the fuel to enter the carburettors you would need to put this same pressure in the tank above the fuel (maybe that's what the rumour was about) or you would need to use an electrical fuel pump (which Aprilia did). By the way, who was the respected motorcycle journalist? |
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Jan Thiel
Nombre de messages : 517
Age : 84
Localisation : Bangkok
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Lun 31 Jan 2011 - 7:41 | |
| The Aprilia RSA 125 also has an electric fuel pump, needed because of the inclined carburettor |
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Marc
Admin
Nombre de messages : 28161
Age : 66
Localisation : Villiers sur Marne (94)
Date d'inscription : 27/05/2008
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Lun 31 Jan 2011 - 10:20 | |
| What a nice surprise to wake up and read posts from Mr Frits Overmars AND Mr Jan Thiel... [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]_________________ Un p'tit clik vaut mieux qu'une grande claque; c'est Harry qui l'a dit! [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image][Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] |
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nasone32
Nombre de messages : 26
Localisation : italy
Date d'inscription : 24/11/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Lun 31 Jan 2011 - 10:50 | |
| very nice surprise indeed such an air pump should provide a hell lot of air to keep the airbox pressurized, so I think it would be very big and should need a lot of power. don't think it as a small pump you can keep secret for long ![wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 22 140286](/users/3313/47/10/07/smiles/140286.gif) |
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MANETON
Nombre de messages : 2288
Localisation : *
Date d'inscription : 26/09/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Lun 31 Jan 2011 - 11:32 | |
| - Marc a écrit:
- What a nice surprise to wake up and read posts from Mr Frits Overmars AND Mr Jan Thiel...
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image] What a nice life which permits to wake up at 10:20 Désolé. ![wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 22 570102](/users/3313/47/10/07/smiles/570102.gif) |
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Institute of TwoStrokes
Nombre de messages : 149
Localisation : Australie
Date d'inscription : 15/10/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Lun 31 Jan 2011 - 12:06 | |
| I am trying to obtain the article but the journalist was Sir Alan Cathcart that tested the Poggiali bike back in ??? 03, 05? ![wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 22 55116](/users/3313/47/10/07/smiles/55116.gif) J'essaie d'obtenir l'article mais le journaliste était sir Alan Cathcart que testé le Poggiali vélo retour en ??? 03, 05? Welkome Hr Thiel |
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Jan Thiel
Nombre de messages : 517
Age : 84
Localisation : Bangkok
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Lun 31 Jan 2011 - 13:10 | |
| You must have misunderstood, my friend Alan Cathcart usually does'n talk nonsense |
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Institute of TwoStrokes
Nombre de messages : 149
Localisation : Australie
Date d'inscription : 15/10/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Lun 31 Jan 2011 - 14:13 | |
| That would be more than likely be the explanation ! |
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Frits Overmars
Nombre de messages : 2638
Age : 76
Localisation : Raalte, Holland
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Lun 31 Jan 2011 - 17:56 | |
| - Marc a écrit:
- What a nice surprise to wake up and read posts from Mr Frits Overmars AND Mr Jan Thiel... [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]
Hi Jan, glad you joined in. Now I can leave the writing to you and get back to my old habit of sleeping at night instead of reading and writing in pit-lane untill the sun rises. Most of what I wrote, I learned from you anyway ![wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 22 809262](/users/3313/47/10/07/smiles/809262.gif) . ![wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 22 1993206895](/users/3313/47/10/07/smiles/1993206895.jpg) PS: Eric, Jan is not an engine man; he is THE engine man 8). But more importantly, he is a friend. |
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fab evospeed
Nombre de messages : 291
Localisation : ile de la reunion
Date d'inscription : 12/11/2009
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Lun 31 Jan 2011 - 19:44 | |
| It was already a pleasure to learn about 2 stroke's specialists , Jan Thiel's being in here makes me crazily happy .
Once again Marc , thank you so much for Pit Lane ..
@ Jan Thiel : I just had 30 years ; at 70 years old , you are THE exemple . Just to confirm , do you still learn from conventionnal 2 stroke engine ?
King regards :).
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ridley
Nombre de messages : 1326
Age : 70
Localisation : Dans les collines du Perche
Date d'inscription : 19/02/2009
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Lun 31 Jan 2011 - 20:39 | |
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Institute of TwoStrokes
Nombre de messages : 149
Localisation : Australie
Date d'inscription : 15/10/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Lun 31 Jan 2011 - 23:50 | |
| Hopefully this question won't keep you up to long Frits  When developing the Derbi and RSA engines, was there an overall plan? Was most work completed on computer simulation before it was tried on engines? Did Aprilia have their own software or use commercial packages like 'Optimum Power'? Was their an improvement that could not be explained ? En élaborant le Derbi et RSA moteurs, y avait-il un plan global? A la plupart des travaux réalisés sur la simulation sur ordinateur avant qu'il a été essayé sur les moteurs? N'a Aprilia ont leur propre logiciel ou l'utilisation des logiciels commerciaux comme « puissance optimale»? A leur une amélioration qui pourrait ne pas être expliqué ? |
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Jan Thiel
Nombre de messages : 517
Age : 84
Localisation : Bangkok
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Mar 1 Fév 2011 - 9:06 | |
| Very little computer simulation was used, as far as I remember only for the cilinder and head cooling.
We once had an exhaust design software on loan from a very well known company, the results were useless! It was mostly cut and try!
Cilinder development was done without any computing, just logical thinking.
The exhaust ducts were CNC machined.
All improvements were fully understood. |
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Frits Overmars
Nombre de messages : 2638
Age : 76
Localisation : Raalte, Holland
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Mar 1 Fév 2011 - 9:11 | |
| - Institute of TwoStrokes a écrit:
- Hopefully this question won't keep you up to long Frits
When developing the Derbi and RSA engines, was there an overall plan? Was most work completed on computer simulation before it was tried on engines? Did Aprilia have their own software or use commercial packages like 'Optimum Power'? Was their an improvement that could not be explained ?
En élaborant le Derbi et RSA moteurs, y avait-il un plan global? A la plupart des travaux réalisés sur la simulation sur ordinateur avant qu'il a été essayé sur les moteurs? N'a Aprilia ont leur propre logiciel ou l'utilisation des logiciels commerciaux comme « puissance optimale»? A leur une amélioration qui pourrait ne pas être expliqué ? Which one of your four questions do you mean, Lawrence?  Joking apart, these really are questions for Jan to answer. The RSA was his brainchild. And it was not developed at Aprilia, at least not in the initial stages, but at Derbi where there was very little in the field of commercial software. Your question about 'improvements that could not be explained' is a nice one! I am very good at explaining anything after the fact 8). But I think I know what you mean. I remember testing a modification that yielded over 1 hp, and nobody could understand why I was not happy about it. It was because according to my theory of the time there should have been a power loss, not a gain, so I had to start thinking all over again. Two-strokes do that to you. Every time you think you finally understand them, they slap your wrist... EDIT: I see Jan was quicker with his answer. No wonder; it is 6 hours later where he lives... |
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Institute of TwoStrokes
Nombre de messages : 149
Localisation : Australie
Date d'inscription : 15/10/2010
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Mer 2 Fév 2011 - 4:07 | |
| Yes Frits two strokes are indeed harsh mistress' Oui Frits 2T sont en effet dures maîtresse' |
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Marc
Admin
Nombre de messages : 28161
Age : 66
Localisation : Villiers sur Marne (94)
Date d'inscription : 27/05/2008
| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) Mer 2 Fév 2011 - 11:27 | |
| - Frits Overmars a écrit:
- Joking apart, these really are questions for Jan to answer. The RSA was his brainchild. And it was not developed at Aprilia, at least not in the initial stages, but at Derbi
Thank you to you, both! Is there any pic of this time? I mean, not specialy pic of the engine, but the small team who worked in Spain, the workshop,... ![wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 22 199739](/users/3313/47/10/07/smiles/199739.jpg) Any "anecdote" would be highly appreciated... _________________ Un p'tit clik vaut mieux qu'une grande claque; c'est Harry qui l'a dit! [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image][Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] |
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| | Sujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) | |
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| | [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) | |
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