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wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Icon_minitimeHier à 21:37 par DidierF

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wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Icon_minitimeMer 20 Nov 2024 - 23:23 par Adco

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wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Icon_minitimeSam 16 Nov 2024 - 14:22 par DidierF

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wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Icon_minitimeSam 16 Nov 2024 - 14:08 par DidierF

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wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Icon_minitimeVen 15 Nov 2024 - 19:30 par DidierF

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wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Icon_minitimeVen 15 Nov 2024 - 9:34 par Joel Enndewell 2424

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 [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked)

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AuteurMessage
Jan Thiel




Nombre de messages : 517
Age : 84
Localisation : Bangkok
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Icon_minitimeDim 20 Fév 2011 - 10:54

Marquez is an excellent rider, and was riding for the best team.
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pfpraider




Nombre de messages : 16
Localisation : bourne england
Date d'inscription : 25/11/2010

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Empty
MessageSujet: RSA   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Icon_minitimeDim 20 Fév 2011 - 10:58

Hi Jan or Frits, do any of the teams have some one who is allowed to do work on the engines to maybe find a little more for certain tracks. Do they all use the same exhaust.
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http://www.pfpservices.co.uk
Marc
Admin
Marc


Nombre de messages : 28161
Age : 66
Localisation : Villiers sur Marne (94)
Date d'inscription : 27/05/2008

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Icon_minitimeDim 20 Fév 2011 - 11:17

Jan Thiel a écrit:
Marquez is an excellent rider, and was riding for the best team.

I agree 100%.
Spanish school is the best and what he is showing during this year tests is very exciting...
Thank you Jan.

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 1993206895

_________________
Un p'tit clik vaut mieux qu'une grande claque; c'est Harry qui l'a dit! [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
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http://www.pit-lane.biz
Institute of TwoStrokes




Nombre de messages : 149
Localisation : Australie
Date d'inscription : 15/10/2010

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Icon_minitimeDim 20 Fév 2011 - 11:31

pfpraider a écrit:
Hi Jan or Frits, do any of the teams have some one who is allowed to do work on the engines to maybe find a little more for certain tracks. Do they all use the same exhaust.


lol!

Who and how can you get more from this engine? I often say that it would be far easier to loose 10HP than to gain 1 from a RSA.


Jan was Aprilia ever concerned about the challenge from KTM in both 125 and 250?
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Jan Thiel




Nombre de messages : 517
Age : 84
Localisation : Bangkok
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Icon_minitimeMer 23 Fév 2011 - 6:56

No, Aprilia was never really concerned about KTM
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Institute of TwoStrokes




Nombre de messages : 149
Localisation : Australie
Date d'inscription : 15/10/2010

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Icon_minitimeJeu 24 Fév 2011 - 0:59

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 809262
Obviously you still had some margin for improvement? Can you explain more about your variable tailpipe idea? I could imagine a device similar to a camera aperture driven by a servo motor?

(for Jarno) wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 809262

Manifestement, vous n'avait toujours une certaine marge d'amélioration? Pouvez-vous expliquer plus à propos de votre variable échappement idée? Je pourrais imaginer un dispositif similaire à une caméra conduit par un servomoteur?
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Jan Thiel




Nombre de messages : 517
Age : 84
Localisation : Bangkok
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Icon_minitimeDim 27 Fév 2011 - 14:09

we had a good safety margin with our carburation.
we could have improved using an injector instead of the powerjet.
KTM had this already!
there were many ideas about a variable tailpipe!
and also about variable inlet timing
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Jarno

Jarno


Nombre de messages : 8661
Localisation : Imatra sur Seine
Date d'inscription : 10/11/2009

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Icon_minitimeDim 27 Fév 2011 - 14:57

Institute of TwoStrokes a écrit:


(for Jarno) wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 809262



wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 771973 wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 809262 wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 980796
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zilo




Nombre de messages : 467
Localisation : haute garonne
Date d'inscription : 09/11/2010

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Empty
MessageSujet: Re: [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked)   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Icon_minitimeMer 2 Mar 2011 - 23:09

Jan Thiel a écrit:
we had a good safety margin with our carburation.
we could have improved using an injector instead of the powerjet.
KTM had this already!
there were many ideas about a variable tailpipe!
and also about variable inlet timing

Hi Jan
Some thing like this ?
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]
I was in Varese last week, and I met some of your old italians mates.
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David Matech Solutions




Nombre de messages : 3
Age : 52
Localisation : Netherlands
Date d'inscription : 18/01/2011

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Empty
MessageSujet: Closed pinstonpins for RS125 available?   wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 Icon_minitimeJeu 3 Mar 2011 - 22:54

Hello,

Great idea about the closed pistonpins. How much hp do you gain from that? Does anyone know if they are also available for the Honda RS125?

I am surprised to see (if I see it correctly) the pins are still plain steel with Chromium coating. I am a material scientist by profession, 2-stroke lover, and if money-no-object, I would expect the pins to be coated titanium. I set out to make these once for a R6 fourstroke (please don't shoot me) and you can raise rpm ceiling by about 600rpm easily. Are Titanium pistonpins used in 2-strokes?

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http://www.matechsolutions.nl
Jan Thiel




Nombre de messages : 517
Age : 84
Localisation : Bangkok
Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

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Almost all 2stroke engines have a needle bearing in the small end.
I do not think you could use a titanium piston pin with a needle bearing.
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David Matech Solutions




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Date d'inscription : 18/01/2011

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I haven't seen needle bearings on a titanium pin. But if I look at the important properties (for example yield strength, fatique strength, brittleness, etc.) I can imagine a titanium smallend should be possible. Providing the correct titanium is selected. And of course the correct surface structure and coating is used to prevent galling.

Anyone with an answer on the HP gain for the closed pistonpins? Is it worth it at privateer level?

And are they available for the RS125?
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EMOTracing

EMOTracing


Nombre de messages : 122
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Date d'inscription : 10/12/2010

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The answer to your two questions have been discussed over and over on this and other forums.
At this moment it is almost considered "basic knowledge" by the other 2 stroke technique orientated forum writers.

Main goal of the cap on the pin is to lower the shortcut loss exhaustport-scavengeport when the pinhole runs over them.

The Aprilia pins are available ,but expensive.
Frits Overmars invented a universal plastic alternative.
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http://www.emot.nl
Frits Overmars

Frits Overmars


Nombre de messages : 2638
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Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

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EMOTracing a écrit:
Frits Overmars invented a universal plastic alternative.
Plastic? At € 600 per meter for a 16 mm rod it could as well be gold....
@anybody who is interested: the commercial side is handled by [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] Yes, that same Emot...
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EMOTracing

EMOTracing


Nombre de messages : 122
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Only little problem ...not much to commercialise due to the fact that there are only a few available.
So lets call it "distributing the pre-production version"
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Riley Will




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Date d'inscription : 14/01/2011

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We have measured 1.5-2.0hp on our 250cc twin with the closed pins.

Ti wrist pins cannot work with needle bearings because you cannot get a hard enough and thick enough "case" depth in the material.

BRC has built closed pins with 9310 VIM/VAR material. They are half the price of Aprilia.
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Jan Thiel




Nombre de messages : 517
Age : 84
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Date d'inscription : 12/10/2010

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That is about the same difference we saw at Aprilia.
Of course the Aprilia prices are excessive!
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David Matech Solutions




Nombre de messages : 3
Age : 52
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Date d'inscription : 18/01/2011

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I found these prices at

[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] (2005 USD price list)

01-14-006 Wrist Pin - Closed $274.86
01-14-005 Wrist Pin - Open $21.35

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Marc
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Marc


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Date d'inscription : 27/05/2008

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Quelques photos ramenées d'Estoril, de mauvaise qualité...

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Un p'tit clik vaut mieux qu'une grande claque; c'est Harry qui l'a dit! [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]

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rg250




Nombre de messages : 44
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Date d'inscription : 31/03/2011

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Jolies les photos Marc, wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 241515

Il y a comme des bouchons sur l'axe de piston wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 809262

On se voit au Mans ? Je suis dans la tribune Aprilia !

Gaaaaaaaazzzzzzzzzz et regazzzzzzzzzzzzzz pour Zarco !
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rg250




Nombre de messages : 44
Localisation : Prouvenço Var
Date d'inscription : 31/03/2011

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Par contre il y a peut-être une trace suspecte sur l'angle supérieur du piston côté échap (visible entre le segment et la calotte en bas à gauche de la dernière image) ?
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Marc


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Si quelqu'un peut m'expliquer ce que c'est que ça....

Juste le piston? Mais on ne voit pas le segment...

wanted - [GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 1) (Locked) - Page 25 412241

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Un p'tit clik vaut mieux qu'une grande claque; c'est Harry qui l'a dit! [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]

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fpayart

fpayart


Nombre de messages : 1251
Age : 75
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Date d'inscription : 11/01/2010

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C'est de la matière qui fait partie du cylindre, les formes de la sortie du cylindre et de la pipe ne sont pas indentiques
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fpayart

fpayart


Nombre de messages : 1251
Age : 75
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Date d'inscription : 11/01/2010

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Vite fait pour aider à comprendre
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]

Demain départ pour Magny-Cours, Championnat d'Europe ...
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Marc


Nombre de messages : 28161
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Date d'inscription : 27/05/2008

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Au vu de la photo, c'est ce que je pensais, mais sans en être certain.

La partie basse (et haute) du conduit d'échappement est donc plus plate que la pipe?
Afin de créer une sorte de décrochement aérodynamique?
Pour éviter le retour des gaz et/ou de l'onde de pression?


_________________
Un p'tit clik vaut mieux qu'une grande claque; c'est Harry qui l'a dit! [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]

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