[GP125] All that you wanted to know on Aprilia RSA 125, and more, by Mr Jan Thiel and Mr Frits Overmars (PART 4)

Bob van der Zijden a écrit:

For real good scientifically based two stroke data and calculations I strongly recommend TORQSOFT.NET
I'm afraid for most of the other so called experts that this is the best one can get in this particular field. Just have a go and try it. The man behind it is a rare combination of science and practical experience. Let me explain  clearly that I have NO commercial connection and or interest with this person whatsoever. Please wake up two stroke youngsters , show some guts and do try TORQSOFT.NET...

Dear Bob, I did have a look at it, but with the few data you have to put in, it is impossible to make a good calculation. Yes you can calculate an exhaustpipe, but you need to be very lucky when it will be right. The mean reason why this is impossible is the lack of information of portsurface for tranfers and exhaust. That is why it is very doubtfull, if the chosen rpm does fit to the engine, this has to be calculated, and so if there will be any power or not. Succes and espected power of a good calculated exhaustpipe depends for more than 50% on the accuracy of that subject.

@ all : I am doing these moped-things just for fun. it's fun riding the races, it's fun building the mopeds and it's fun and very cheap playing with the engines. and especialy it cost's next to nothing if I screw up, only some wasted time. I know a guy who has mountains of good second hand parts for Honda Sky's and he asks little money : 5 euro for a head, 10 euro for a cylinder, 10 euro for a very good piston, 20 euro for a good crank, ...

yes, I can pay 50 euro for exhaust templates. I can also pay someone to make a full exhaust, I can pay Malossi for a good cylinder, I can buy a programable ignition, I could buy an entire moped, but where is the fun in that ? I take pride in the fact that I (wanna) do everything myself. Every expert in his field was once not better than me right now, I/they all needed to learn and I still believe one learns the most from screwing up AND finding out why one screwed up. So I will continue to do things myself but I'm not to proud to ask for some advice when needed. I didn't ask anyone to give me exact dimensions for a good pipe, nor did I say that all software to calculate them is crap. Just that those for sale/free most likely can benefit from some fine tuning. I'm pretty sure Luc has some very good software but it wouldn't be smart if would sell that one to anyone ;-)

all the time I'm learning/finding out stuff and that's the most important thing. and I'm learning it at maybe 1% of the costs than when I would be doing the same stuff with my KR1S

Excellent motivation, Jan .

Jan, I agree too, that's why I keep it cheap and sorry I don't sell my homemade software. I took me till 2010 to get the current level. And still it is only 99%, so not perfect. I also learned from 1964 and met Jan Thiel and Bob van der Zijden and later Frits Overmars.

But learning by yourself cost many years to reach this level and most people don't have the time to put in. Still they like to reach this level in the most shortest way, so called "the shortest way to Rome". That is why so many questions on many forums like this and why I get so many requests.

Have a look at this story: [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]

What a pity that Jan and Frits didn`t use TORQSOFT, for 50 euros they could have saved themselves 10 years of grafting at the dyno to perfect the Aprilia!

If you don't sow properly your harvest will be poor...

Bob van der Zijden a écrit:

If you don't sow properly your harvest will be poor...

if you are a farmer then you are in big trouble.
if you just throw some seeds in the garden and wonder what and if something will grow, it doesn't matter how big the harvest will be as long as you are having fun throwing seeds

Always thought that this forum is high tech. In the meantime I've discovered the contrary. Hardly anybody uses dynamically balanced crankshafts, Mickey Mouse ignition systems are standard practice, the same applies for waterpums and so on... Dwarf engineering in optima forma. By the way do you know what a dwarf is? Maybe I told it already but here it comes again: a dwarf is a frigid midget witha rigid digit...

Ciao for now!

Bob van der Zijden a écrit:

Maybe I told it already but here it comes again: a dwarf is a frigid midget witha rigid digit...

Yes Bob, you have told it before, and it wasn't funny then either. Partly because it's an ancient schoolboy joke, and partly because you left half of it out.
I hope your tuning methods are better researched and tested than your joke.

Bob van der Zijden a écrit:

Always thought that this forum is high tech.

it is.
where did you gather your knowledge ? did you wake up one day and saw the light and knew it all ? who know's that within 10 years someone from here that asks the same stupid questions as me becomes the next JanTiel and re-invents the 2-stroke engine ?
you don't want people to enjoy 2-strokes in 30years anymore ? Because those who ain't at a high level yet need to learn somewhere and it won't be in any school/university that you can learn all this stuff. this forum is an ideal place for that. Frits and Jan understand that perfectly.

So do I, read my warning

Just read once more Melvyn Trevor's comment!
Melvyn, you're at least someone who understands the quality of TORQSOFT. What a pity for the apparently slightly arrogant gang who is also present at this wonderful forum. But it's never too late.
And for people who dare to make a comparison between LucF and TORQSOFT please get serious. Which doesn't mean I don't appreciate what LucF/ Luc Foekema is doing. I'm supporting him where I can, free of charge as we are in fact old race mates since the early 60's.

Bob van der Zijden a écrit:

If you don't sow properly your harvest will be poor...

Even if you are professional, you have to calculate the exact right rpm, before calculating the exhaustpipe.

Bob van der Zijden a écrit:

And for people who dare to make a comparison between LucF and TORQSOFT please get serious. Which doesn't mean I don't appreciate what LucF/ Luc Foekema is doing. I'm supporting him where I can, free of charge as we are in fact old race mates since the early 60's.

Yes Bob, I will cooperate this good idea for free. But under the conditions as in practice.

That might be so Bob , but you don`t appreciate the irony!

melvyn trevor a écrit:

What a pity that Jan and Frits didn`t use TORQSOFT, for 50 euros they could have saved themselves 10 years of grafting at the dyno to perfect the Aprilia!

We may not have saved ourselves all those years of slavery, but we did save the €50  ('ourselves' = Jan; he did all the work).

melvyn trevor a écrit:

... you don`t appreciate the irony!

Keep up the good work Melv!
By the way: I missed you. What have you been doing between 2012 and now?

Been on Kiwi site a few times where you and Wob keep us all on the correct path. Thank you for the plaudits and thank you for sharing your "brain" around to the world of two-stroke engine enthusiasts. I`m not sure what we would do without you around. Some people were just born to make a difference!

Had a quick look at the TORQSOFT web site.

Sadly just another rip-off of the original Blair Formulae SAE PROG software programs.
Nothing you can't do in excel spreadsheet.

melvyn trevor a écrit:

Thank you for the plaudits and thank you for sharing your "brain" around to the world of two-stroke engine enthusiasts. I`m not sure what we would do without you around. Some people were just born to make a difference!

Amen to that!

Some people seem to forget that 99% of the folks working on 2-strokes do this as a hobby and due to pure enthusiasm. They spend their free time plus earned money in order to have fun and in the best case learn something.

If you volunteer to balance my crank dynamically bob i'll cover the shipping cost. Otherwise I'll stick with truing it, go out riding and have fun. I doubt that a dynamically balanced crank or a not-Micky-Mouse ignition will lower my laptimes more than go riding with the money spent on those trick parts.

dutch fisher a écrit:

Had a quick look at the TORQSOFT web site.

Sadly just another rip-off of the original Blair Formulae SAE PROG software programs.
Nothing you can't do in excel spreadsheet.

Dutch fisher, Can you show us the in- and out-put?
.

Serious racing costs serious money. Low budget racing is ok but don't expect too much technically seen. The best way of low budget racing is a well controlled set of rules preferably with the so called claim system as was practised in Scandinavia with rallye cross, that makes people very keen and ingeneous to get the most out of their engines at minimum costs. However I'm afraid this is utopian in our super individual mc world.
And to finish a few words to Koenich: why sould I balance a crankshaft for free? Do you pay my energy bills and my coke? I,m afraid you're a cheap prince who admires Freddy and the Dreamers...

I was just teasing you as you seem to be quick to judge people and their effort few things in this world are free, especially everyone who was ever in touch with racing knows that.

I prefer an open rulebook though. some people will advance trough money, others trough effort, some trough knowledge and some have all of this but maybe are bad drivers?

Better than messing with after-market Blair clones why not put a few more euros together and invest in Engmod 2t. best, affordable simulation software around. You will also have Frits on board with you. Now that's got to be good, hasn`t it? That way you can try 20 pipes a day if you want, ring the changes and analyse the results, that's the way to learn!

Bob, ease off the gas pedal, your not making any friends this way!

Bob van der Zijden a écrit:

Serious racing costs serious money. Low budget racing is ok but don't expect too much technically seen.

Once upon a time there were two friends, Jan Thiel and Martin Mijwaart..... Need I say more, Bob?
Yes, they were the exception to the rule, but why shouldn't there be other exceptions nowadays that we don't know about yet?
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This shed was the origin of 26 constructor's world titles and 25 rider's world titles.

koenich a écrit:

99% of the folks working on 2-strokes do this as a hobby and due to pure enthusiasm. They spend their free time plus earned money in order to have fun and in the best case learn something.

So let us try to encourage them!

practice makes perfect

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